How To Repair Box Truck Ceiling

Plastic Electric Box Repairs
How to fix or supercede a broken plastic ceiling or wall electric box;
Causes of plastic electrical box failure, falling from ceilings or walls

• Mail service a QUESTION or Comment about fixing a loose ceiling light fixture traced to a cleaved electrical box whose supports snapped off.

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Repair a cleaved plastic electric box mounted in a ceiling or wall

This article describes how to repair a ceiling light fixture electric box that was falling out of the ceiling, beginning with an caption of how and why broken plastic electrical box swing clench supports immune the electrical box to autumn from the ceiling leaving the lite fixture hanging by its electrical wires.

In the second function of this article, "Ceiling Light Fixture Installation" nosotros use an "old piece of work" electrical box to replace the damaged box, secure the new box and re-mount the light fixture safely.

Nosotros hash out the requirement for secure mounting of ceiling electrical boxes for fans and lights and we give step by footstep details for installing a replacement electrical box, insulating around it, connecting the ceiling light wires, and so testing and completing the installation.

The electrical box repair or replacement procedures described in this article series describes step by step repairs for both metal and plastic electrical boxes used in building electrical wiring systems.

We also provide an ARTICLE Index for this topic, or you can endeavor the folio acme or lesser SEARCH BOX as a quick style to notice information y'all demand.

How to ready a loose, broken or damaged plastic electrical box falling out of place

Crusade of Ceiling Light Fixture Support Box Failure

The bathroom ceiling light shown above was found one morning hanging past its electric wires: the plastic electrical box from which the light fixture was suspended was itself falling out of the ceiling - a dangerous situation risking burn down or shock, more-so for a light fixture suspended over a bathroom sink. What happened?

Watch out: The round Carlon B618R electrical box used for the original light installation was a Carlon 4 one/four" diameter electrical box that is specifically indicated by the manufacturer as not for fixture support in the ceiling.

The concern is that the weight of a light fixture may pull the swing clips through the drywall or crusade it to break, or the weight or movement of a heavy calorie-free fixture or ceiling fan may crusade the swing clips themselves to break.

A falling low-cal fixture or fan can kill someone or could commencement a building burn.

But this calorie-free fixture installation failed for a different reason: the swing clamps were tightened using a high-speed and powerful bombardment-operated drill mounted with a phillips chip to speed the fixture installation.

The swing clamp screws were so over-tightened against the drywall ceiling that all iii of them cracked and 2 broke off completely.

A closer inspection of the original blue plastic electrical box to which the light fixture had been mounted discovered that ii of the three plastic clips or "ears" intended to connect the electrical box to the ceiling drywall had snapped off.

This allowed the box to loosen and ultimately to fall from the ceiling where it remained hanging by its wires. Below you tin can see one of the broken-off swing clamp remains.

The swing clench was broken past over-tightening of the clamp spiral.

Article Contents

• PLASTIC Electrical BOX REPAIR
• Erstwhile WORK BOX in NEW Structure?
• OLD WORK BOX IN THICK CEILING
• OLD WORK BOX TORQUE FAILURE
• Onetime Piece of work BOX FAILURE FIELD Report
• Onetime WORK Electric BOXES for RETROFIT

Why was an Erstwhile Work Electrical Box Used in New Construction?

First, why was this type of "one-time work" electrical box used in the first place, rather than installing an electrical box securely attached to the ceiling framing? After all the calorie-free fixture had been installed during new construction. An "old work" electrical box is designed to exist installed neatly through a finished wall or ceiling.

Normally a "new work" plastic electrical box installed during new construction is either nailed to the building framing (shown below) or if information technology needs to exist spaced away from a stud or joist in a wall or ceiling it may be supported by a bracket that is in plough nailed to the edifice framing.

See ELECTRICAL JUNCTION BOX TYPES.

But when the electrician is asked to leave a wire exposed for future installation of an electric box whose precise location has not been adamant, say for a ceiling light fixture over a bath sink that has not even so been installed, she may exit the wire protruding through a ceiling or wall and may plan on afterwards re-locating the wire precisely using an old work retrofit type electric box.

See details at Sometime Piece of work Electric BOXES for RETROFIT

The installer used a Carlon B618R round plastic 18-inch electrical box (shown earlier on this folio) that is specifically not recommended for carrying a ceiling light fixture.

But had the box mounting screws not been over-tightened or possibly had the box not used lacking swing clamps that permitted them to break even if not over-tightened, this installation may nevertheless have worked for decades without a mechanical failure.

Notwithstanding, why was this box selected?

That's what happened in this building, as we illustrate beneath.

Installing Wiring for Ceiling Light Fixture Whose Exact Final Location is Not Known

These photographs illustrate the sequence of construction and history of the wiring of the bathroom ceiling light fixture discussed beginning at PLASTIC ELECTRICAL BOX REPAIR. At below left you lot can see that a bath has been roughed-in, a shower pan is in place, and the electrical wiring rough-in is in place.

At above right we see that the bath ceiling calorie-free wiring for a lite over the sink was left dangling through the ceiling with no electrical box (red arrow) because the exact location for the bath light fixture had not been determined.

Watch out: This was not the best practice: it would accept been a better, more correct, and safer installation to have installed a ceiling light fixture box well-secured to the ceiling joists.

If the ceiling light fixture needed to be suspended from an electrical box that could not be nailed or screwed directly to the side of a ceiling joist or truss a supporting bar can be installed between the joists, allowing the box to be centered between them.

If possible an quondam-work electrical box tin can exist secured directly to wood framing (beneath left, using a Madison Electric Products Smart Box as example), or if the exact light support location does non permit that straight connection ane could apply an one-time-piece of work fan bar hanger that includes a deep 4-inch octagon box (below left - Racon fan box support).

Fan support and ceiling lite back up confined and boxes are provided with both steel and plastic electrical boxes attached straight to framing or mounted from a telescoping back up arm that itself can be fit upwardly through a ceiling or wall opening.

Every construction projection experiences sequencing problems and the pressure (and sometimes mistakes) of decisions made under the urgency of arriving contractors who, if not permitted to work on schedule, volition throw an unabridged construction project off class.

What'south needed is careful attention to the solution of each of the snafus left backside.

The insulation contractor arrived to spray insulation - leaving the wire exposed and dangling.

In this item home the architect had left electric wires poking through the ceiling while waiting for the homeowner to decide exactly what fixture was to exist installed and exactly what sink was to be installed beneath: the owners wanted to center the light fixture properly over the sink, and so the electric box location was left equally a subsequently project.

After framing, crude-in, electric rough-in (to a higher place left), and insulation (above right) were all complete, the drywall contractor arrived to install ceiling and wall drywall, leaving the electric wire for the bath sink light dangling through a small hole in the ceiling drywall (yellow circumvolve in our photograph at below left).

Clips on the old work box rotate out over the drywall and then pinch the box to the drywall as the three mounting screws are tightened.

This permits installing an electrical box without ripping open up a larger pigsty in the ceiling equally might be needed to secure a new work electrical box to the building structure, and it permits mounting of an electrical box in a location where framing is not shut past.

To a higher place at left yous can see the yellow electrical wires for the ceiling light hanging from the bath ceiling (in the yellow circle). Why are there two wire sets? One brings power to the light fixture and the other provides wiring to the wall switch for the light.

At to a higher place correct is the bath ceiling light fixture newly-installed using an sometime work electrical box.

Why Did the Supporting Swing Clips of the Plastic Former Piece of work Electrical Box Fail?

There are several explanations offered for the failure of plastic swing clamps in quondam work electrical box failures:

1. Over-Torquing or over-tightening the screws using a powerful drill-operated screwdriver ready to too-high torque - discussed beneath

   at One-time WORK BOX TORQUE FAILURE

2. Improper production selection or installation: using an old work box whose swing clips cannot accommodate the ceiling or wall thickness or installing an old-work electrical box in a ceiling or wall opening that is cut too large, such that the swing clips lack adequate buy.

   An case of this failure is reported below at Erstwhile Work BOX IN THICK CEILING

3. Possible product defects, perchance a bad plastic mix or too-sparse forming of the swing clip - this is currently only speculation and more investigation is needed. That discussion is

   at OLD WORK BOX FAILURE FIELD REPORT

Old Work Box Ceiling Fixture Failed from Over Torquing

Well they didn't spontaneously fail, that'southward for sure. The electric box support clips were broken by a heavy manus during installation.

How did I know that the swing clamps had been broken past the screwing operation?

When I removed and inspected this component it was obvious that the swing clamp body had been screwed all the way down tightly against the plastic stop at the terminate of its travel. The screws had been forced against their stop and were difficult to loosen.

The stop has a thickness of about 1/4" - an amount certainly less than the 1/two" drywall that the swing clamp was expected to grab.

Some electric work writers recommend and many electricians apply a power-screwdriver to speed their work.

As some electrical box or device mounting screws are quite long, hand-turning these screws is tedious, particularly when working overhead such as at a ceiling low-cal fixture.

But running a loftier-power battery-operated screwdriver at full tilt when zipping in the old work electrical box mounting screws is request for trouble.

That's because as the old work mounting box ears contact the drywall (and the installer should stop turning the screws) the drill keeps zooming along, cracking or breaking these parts. In this particular case the erstwhile work electrical box was damaged during original installation only the box didn't actually fall through the ceiling until months later on after contractor, drywaller, and electrician were long gone.

[OK so I sort-of faked the photo at left: this illustration of using a DeWalt bombardment operated drill to tighten the swing clamp screws on an old-piece of work retrofit plastic electrical box was fabricated during a later repair pace when I was killing time waiting for my foam insulation to harden.

But the point is, if yous use a high-torque powerful tool similar this without setting the torque to a suitably low level yous will probably break the swing clamps and if you're lucky the electrical box will fall out now before you're called back to supplant it a year from now. ]

The bluish plastic box at below left is a new-work electrical box with nails intended for driving into a wall stud or ceiling joist, while at below right is an old work electrical box intended for retrofit box installation through a drywall or plaster ceiling or wall.

Spotter out: comments posted at this article warn that some plastic erstwhile-work electrical boxes may have a problem with failure of their securing ears that may break, allowing a ceiling low-cal fixture to autumn or a wall-mounted receptacle or switch to go insecure.

Also meet this ZIP BOX for another example of an old work retrofit electric box in a rectangular style.

The rectangular box at below left has spiral receivers only at the box corners: not a location where a metal repair clip will fit.

The round plastic old work electrical box at below right, produced by Carlon provides xviii cubic inches of wiring space and enjoys a wide surface-mounting flange (orangish arrow). That flange is not a surface over which the G-clip would fit unless the box itself were modified by cutting away portions of its material.

The recessed location of the screw receiving opening on this circular box leaves us doubtful that a repair clip repair is possible for these electrical boxes.

These round plastic electrical boxes practise sport a nice characteristic if y'all are worried near piercing an electrical wire while using a make-shift repair spiral. The crimson arrow in the photos show that the device mounting screw receiver on these plastic boxes is manufactured with a deep rib running the full depth of the box.

At no point would a wire inside the electrical box be exposed to damage from the fixture mounting screw, as the screw passes through the hole above the cherry arrow tip continues inside of the raised rib.

Lookout man out: practise not rely on quondam work boxes with minimal support (simply drywall, for instance) to carry heavier fixtures or ones subject to vibration or movement such as a ceiling fan. Such installations are unsafe.

Sentinel out: we accept found no lawmaking approval nor list agency listings or approvals for any electrical box repair methods, hardware or approaches. Cheque with your local electrical inspector almost the acceptability of your repair approach.

Electrical box replacement rather than screw or screw receiver repairs will exist required in some situations such every bit ceiling boxes carrying weight likewise every bit by local electrical lawmaking inspectors.

Quondam Piece of work Box Swing Clamp Failure Field Reports: possible product defect?

Gary,

Thank you for posting a very of import status report on failures with old piece of work plastic electrical boxes.

I've seen this problem also and I suspected that the chemistry of the plastic may take been defective or at that place may accept been a fabrication quality control outcome.

Sometimes a manufacturer moves production from one plant or even one country to another resulting in glitches to be found and fixed.

So of form we look forward to an update when yous can provide one. These are important product's that are widely used.

I take a unlike experience with the Carlon Erstwhile Work boxes failing. In the terminal three years of using the boxes here in Florida, everyone of them has failed on me. I'm using rectangular and round Quondam Piece of work boxes.

Upon inspection, every i of them had the plastic swing tabs cleaved allowing boxes to fall out of ceiling or wall.

I DO Non Use A Ability TOOL TO INSTALL THEM! I merely use a screwdriver and my aging hand force. The failures tend to happen about a year subsequently install. Later on 1/2 dozen failures, I contacted Carlon over a year ago who said they never heard of this problem. However they sent replacement swing tabs (which have also broken).

I recently contacted the new Carlon company Thomas and Betts who were unaware of problem. However they were eager to find out what was going on and have been working with me to determine crusade of failures.

They did concord in that location is a manufacturing issue and are working on solution. I would elaborate farther just believe Thomas and Betts would prefer I don't hash out effect on this forum until they have completed their investigation and have a solution. Simply wanted to share this with the folks here who have had this failure.

I concur that it'due south not proper to torque the heck out of the swing tabs with power tools...that certainly will accelerate the problem. However T&B accept agreed in that location is a manufacturing consequence and are working on resolving it.
Gary

Gary,

Thanks for reporting this important field observation of swing-out clip type Carlon old work boxes. As y'all doubtless read in the commodity above I found a similar trouble with another sometime work box, though it was not a Carlon bluish box.

I would much like to see a broken clip and box or precipitous photos of those parts as information technology might be diagnostic.

It would besides exist helpful to know if you are seeing the clip failure just on wall boxes or too on ceiling boxes (made of a heavier PVC plastic)
And it would be helpful to know if you are seeing these failures only in hot ceilings or in other building locations.

Practice y'all retrieve peradventure we are seeing a failure that might exist due to

- poor plastic role durability where these boxes are installed in hot climates like Florida?

- peradventure an inconsistency in the chemic formula of the bluish PVC boxes and their parts - we may not be able to notice out from the company but sometimes companies modify their supplier, perhaps to a different company in China (Where are these boxes actually manufactured?)

- some other failure such as a lacking screw or clip design or pattern modify?

For other readers, hither is how Carlon Sales describes this production:

Zip Box Blue™ nonmetallic switch and outlet boxes from Carlon are the contractor's selection for residential, light commercial and manufactured housing projects. The line is designed for utilise with nonmetallic-sheathed cable in accordance with Commodity 370 of the electric current NEC.

Zip Box Blue outlet and switch boxes are manufactured from high impact lightweight PVC with clean and piece of cake knockouts. Many are bachelor in single and multiple gang configurations with pre-installed nails for convenience on the job.

The line is complemented by a total array of round and rectangular covers and adapter rings. - source: Carlon Sales, 2022/ten/20 original source: http://www.carlonsales.com/oldworknmbox.php

From Carlon'southward FAQs nigh this production:

Why are ceiling boxes made from a different plastic compound than the wall boxes?

The ceiling boxes must laissez passer a UL test where a 200-pound weight is supported for 5 minutes at 105°C. A PVC box will not pass this test. ... A ceiling box can back up a fixture of 50 pounds or less. A ceiling box rated for "fan back up" can support a fan of 35 pounds or less.

• Gross Automation (877) 268-3700 · www.carlonsales.com · sales@grossautomation.com Carlon Lamson & Sessions 25701 Science Park Drive Cleveland, Ohio 44122 USA, Tel: 216-464-3400 one-800-3CARLON (322-7566) Website: www.carlon.com

Concluded up here at this site considering of the multiple failures I'yard seeing with ALL the blue Carlon Old piece of work boxes that utilize the swing out clips. I've used them for quite a few years. But after moving to Florida and doing piece of work here, I've had every box come loose due to broken swing out clips.

Contacted company who sent me replacements only still seeing failures. I do NOT employ a power screwdriver to fix boxes...but my own hand torque. The clips hold for perchance a year then i or more than of intermission. I'm not going to use them anymore. Accept a new enquiry into company (now Thomas Betts) but haven't heard back nevertheless.

It is correct that an electric box installed in a ceiling and that is going to have a light fixture suspended from it must exist itself strong enough, must provide sufficiently stiff connectors to hold the weight of the light, and must be adequately secured to the building framing.

When I installed a ceiling fan last week - heavier than a normal light fixture - I made sure to use an electrical box intended to support the weight of a fan, and I used structure screws (not drywall screws) to fasten information technology to the side of the ceiling joist.

When I read that a light brutal out of a ceiling I suspect that it was not properly installed.

Thank you and then much for your response. I was pretty sure he was feeding me a bunch of love blaming it on the box acting as if this was simply something that happens with Carlon Boxes. If that's the case, why is he continuing to use them.?

This is non a Cookie cutter home and they fabricated plenty of money on this job. Unfortunately, I don't have a significant other to climb upwards there to take pics and since they already sent guys out to hang another fixture the bear witness may be gone.

I still have the forest flooring to replace and then I may try and hire someone to get up at that place and expect at it. Thank you once more for your input.

Miechell

Attic heat can in no fashion be an excuse for a lite fixture falling out of the ceiling. In that location are millions of warm or hot attics above ceiling light fixtures that exercise non fall out.

If the proper electrical box type were selected AND if it were properly secured to building framing AND if the fixture itself were properly secured to the box, then the low-cal fixture would not have fallen.

Ane would need to make a very careful inspection of all of those connection points to understand what happened and how to prevent its recurrence.

An onsite expert will always notice more than of import details than a normal homeowner might observe effectually any building failure, merely perhaps if yous utilize our CONTACT link at page top or bottom to send along some sharp photos of the opening from which the box roughshod, the framing to which information technology should have been attached, the box from all sides, its connectors and the fixture, we might be able to offer farther comment.

I recently had a 32 lb calorie-free fixture fall out of the ceiling in the vestibule of my MBR. 2hrs earlier I had been standing under it for nearly xx minutes so I experience very fortunate I was non injure or killed. I was involved actively in building my business firm and hired the electrical company we used myself.

I was totally shocked at being told by the owner they were not at error; it was, the Carlon box. Gave me reasons for interruption down such as the heat in the attic (I have Radiant Barrier; it's not that hot) and used the word stripped but I was so upset I'thousand not sure if he said screws or threads.

I have lived in the house five years this month. Information technology concerns me of what else may fall out of the ceiling! After reading this article it confirms my stance in that location was more to this than the the box breaking down. He also said these boxes are good for up to 50 lbs and then they had hung it correctly past using plastic rather than metal. Would love to hear other'southward opinions on this.

Sometime Work Box Failure in Thick Ceiling

Jeff

I'd have tried the same thing, though there are other solutions including flat metal clips that will allow you insert a box into a thicker existing wall.

An important concern, however, is that on an outside wall your electric box and encompass and fixtures need to be rated-for and actually weatherproof - lest water leak in and y'all get a brusque or daze.

Wall too thick for erstwhile work box. My solution.

I just had a low-cal fixture autumn out of an outer wall of the firm. It was installed with round box / quondam piece of work / swing clips. The swing clips never engaged considering the outside wall is 1 1/4" thick which was too much depth for the clips to get backside the wall.

I bought longer screws and modified the clips past cutting abroad material of the engaging border in guild to allow for greater wall thickness between box lip and swing clips. (The clip must remain in the aqueduct in gild to be checked one-half way when turning the spiral. You can't only use a long screw and push the clip out of the channel.)

Perhaps one is not supposed to use one of these on an outside wall.

In any consequence, it will now withstand a good tug. I should impress my electrical contractor'due south name here but won't!

Waiting for the other 3 fixtures to popular.

The Falling of the Light Fixture and Subsequent Calling of the Light Fixture Repair Brigade

The bathroom was beautiful and the electrical work seemed just fine besides, until a year later the building occupants noticed that the calorie-free seemed a bit closer to the sink.

A closer inspection showed that the low-cal fixture was inching its way out of the ceiling along with the round blue electrical box to which information technology was fastened.

For repair procedures for a loose or falling ceiling light fixture due to electric box impairment

come across CEILING Low-cal FIXTURE INSTALLATION

...

Go along reading at CEILING LIGHT FIXTURE INSTALLATION - continuing the article in a higher place, or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or meet the complete Commodity INDEX.

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How To Repair Box Truck Ceiling,

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